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WinDev Forum
Beiträge im Thema:
Erster Beitrag:
vor 6 Monaten
Letzter Beitrag:
vor 6 Monaten
Beteiligte Autoren:
Art Bonds, GuenterP, Peter Holemans, Fabrice Harari, DerekM-2

Interesting reading IMO

Startbeitrag von Art Bonds am 12.01.2018 03:59

Original jobs specs are here...


I knew I was not qualified but the 'humble JAVA developer' caught my eye. I have never met a humble JAVA developer. Many think JAVA is (insert your favorite diety)'s gift to programming. You know, JAVA uber alles. So I applied.

On the refactoring test I reduced their 20 line JAVA procedure to just 2 lines.

PROCEDURE isNegative(Stringfield)
RESULT Contains(Stringfield,"[")

Their reply was predictable:

Hi Arthur,

We enjoyed your application, but you are no longer under consideration because you are not local and you do not have significant experience with Java. If you ever move to the DFW area, feel free to apply again to Smart Start, and good luck with your job search.


My reply might not have been as predictable... :p

Hi xxxxxxxx,

I really have to thank you for your response, I really did not expect any reply at all. The fact that you did speaks volumes as to your professionalism and integrity.

You are correct, I am no JAVA expert. As you can see my 'expertise' in JAVA is that I can read and refactor it into a language much better suited for applications like the ones you listed (interactions, reports, etc). While JAVA is a powerful general purpose programming language, sometimes there are better choices in tools to be made when addressing a certain niche. Like using a nail gun instead of a hammer to build a house.

My application to your company was a statement that there might be a better way to refactor your database applications than using JAVA and the laundry list of two dozen technologies that you must employ to produce what is essentially a simple product. While it may not have been apparent, refactoring a rambling 20 line JAVA procedure to one line was my way of showing that. It is my belief that your JAVA database applications can similarly be refactored.

Using a product and IDE that is tailor made to produce database applications would be much better suited to you stated goal of replacing legacy code that works 'mostly'. An experienced developer using a rapid database application development tool would make replacement much simpler, much faster and much cheaper than using JAVA.

Better. Faster. Cheaper. Pick three.

Admitting you have a problem is the first step. Selecting an appropriate tool to fix it is the second. Those are the signs of a humble company. If you ever need someone to refactor your applications correctly you know where to find me.

Best Regards,
Arthur Bonds

I can be a little prick sometimes... :D

Oh, and my wife says she has never met a humble developer...


Hi Art,

thank you for your posting! The case of Smart Start Inc. reflects the general status of the industry. All they want is to keep with the so called "standards" and end up in a vast muddy land of tools which they're unable to tame anymore. Result is that employees will leave because they cannot see a finished product anywhere and cannot sustain pressure from management. A "humble developer" is presumably a person which is happy to have a job at all and doesn't complain about dumb managers, doesn't care about being humbled by them and will not mention poor quality work of previous developers. In short: they're looking for an idiot.

von GuenterP - am 12.01.2018 07:34
Hi Art,

thank for posting

So many different tools.... how can they ever achieve anything?

Best regards

von Fabrice Harari - am 12.01.2018 12:39
Hi, with every programmer hired, new tools are added because s/he says that nothing will be accomplished without those wonderful tool/s. And then - s/he leaves / is fired after a while of accomplishing not much. Next one comes in and ... you know.

von GuenterP - am 12.01.2018 18:13
:) Admitting you have a problem is the first step.

Well, you know that's not going to happen...

Let's just keep WinDev a secret, and let them suffer ;)

von DerekM-2 - am 14.01.2018 02:49
Hey guys,

It's a recognisable scenario indeed... Seen it many times...

But staying with one tool can only be done if you can do everything with that tool...
We couldn't anymore and had to use other stuff anyway to get things going so we said: why not use the other stuff that does everything WX does and much more...



von Peter Holemans - am 14.01.2018 09:10
WD may have limitations that you have reached, but for the vast majority of cases it works just fine for the rest of us, without the need for overkill. Java + two dozen add on's, or maybe something like what you migrated to, can be used to manipulate data and write simple reports just like WD easily does, but why?

Some wise dude once said KISS. Another wise dude once said everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler.

Relatively simple problems deserve relatively simple solutions. WD is simple enough for a majority of everything people do, but not simpler. Use the correct tool for the job. Not everybody needs a dump truck to bring home the family groceries for the week.

von Art Bonds - am 14.01.2018 13:55
Hi Art,

Couldn't agree more... Use the right tool for the job is key !
Any choice not confining to that has more to do with religion than common sense ;-)



von Peter Holemans - am 15.01.2018 06:41
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