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Forum:
WinDev Forum
Beiträge im Thema:
19
Erster Beitrag:
vor 5 Jahren, 1 Monat
Letzter Beitrag:
vor 5 Jahren
Beteiligte Autoren:
GuenterP, Piet van Zanten, Alexander S., Fabrice Harari, Ola, Viggo Poulsen, DarrenF

WX Bugs list

Startbeitrag von Piet van Zanten am 23.12.2012 13:10

Hi,

I'm considering creating a little Webdev project to record and list WX bugs.
Everybody loses time and money dealing with bugs that may or may not have already been reported.
So my idea is to create a system to enter bugs.
Users can enter bugs and other users can confirm them.
Bugs that have the most confirmations obviously are most likely to be real bugs.

However, I have some questions:
In general:
- Are there any legal issues regarding PCSoft that I should be aware of?
- Are you forum users at all interested in such a system? I added a poll to this thread.

@Guenter: I can host it myself, but will you possibly be willing to host the site as a part of this forum? I can send you the project once finished. Or are you willing to create a permanent link on your forum if I host it myself?

Regards,
Piet

Antworten:

Hi Piet

If you go ahead, I would suggest that you contact pcsoft and offer them a direct access to your system allowing them to post a workaround/solution and/or when the bug has been solved and in what version.

I would also suggest that you differentiate between US and FR versions as a bug may be present in one of the two or in both.

Finally, you may want to add a disclaimer saying that:
1. You have no direct link with pcsoft
2. your web site is not there to disparage WX... but to help user save time.
3. That you hope that your system will be replaced by a native PCSoft one listing the bugs, the same way that all major software editor are doing.

Best regards

von Fabrice Harari - am 23.12.2012 14:31
Hi Piet,

in fact, THERE IS such a facility already but by unknown reasons it's left widely unused!

You can put comments to the Online Help System for all Wx-products! If any programmer finds that a function doesn't work as expected they should consult the Online Help as a starting point, what else? If there's a bug and the finder of it has left a message - hurray, no need to spend any sweat any more!

PC Soft will not delete such reports/requests unless the problem has been fixed. So, everybody can be sure that a bug report within the Online Help is still valid. If cooperation really works then we'd not need any duplicated endeavour to find / document a bug which is already documented. PC Soft even doesn't delete such bug reports if the issue moves over to the next version!

Additionally, by placing bug reports / feature requests into the Online Help PLUS mentioning the bug report# returned by PC Soft you will have an automatic management of solutions to issues. If you find that your report/request is deleted then you will have assurance that the bug is done. What could be better?

If anything speaks against heavy usage of the Online Help system then please, tell me!

Very often, I'm receiving mails about 'bad bugs' from Wx-users and mostly it turns out that the bug is just a programming error or a misinterpretation of the help-text. If you (let) put such bug-reports show up on your web site, there's a big probability that PC Soft will protest and may even sue you because of badmouthing their products on invalid grounds - you'd have to prove that the wrong bug report is valid.Crazy. I'd prefer to avoid such a situation.

Kind regards,
Guenter

von GuenterP - am 23.12.2012 18:29
Hi Guenter

This sounds good. But I have to be absolutely sure that I am not spamming anything not suited for it.
I have seen that you can write comments to the online help. Sounds like a good idea. But I never got the impression that it could be used for error reporting.
Is this the official PC soft politic ?
Does PC soft have a method of seeing all new messages (it's not good enough if they have to accidentially stumble over a report) ?
If I put in an error report or a feature request, do I get some kind of message if it is answered or do I have to look it up myself ?

If it works as I hope it do, this could be a really valuable tool for all of us.

Best regards
Viggo Poulsen

von Viggo Poulsen - am 23.12.2012 22:25
Quote
Viggo Poulsen
Hi Guenter

This sounds good. But I have to be absolutely sure that I am not spamming anything not suited for it.
I have seen that you can write comments to the online help. Sounds like a good idea. But I never got the impression that it could be used for error reporting.
Is this the official PC soft politic ?
Does PC soft have a method of seeing all new messages (it's not good enough if they have to accidentially stumble over a report) ?
If I put in an error report or a feature request, do I get some kind of message if it is answered or do I have to look it up myself ?

If it works as I hope it do, this could be a really valuable tool for all of us.

Best regards
Viggo Poulsen


Hi Viggo,

- it's the best place for error reporting. Provided you can prove it's REALLY an error. If you have a code snippet or a link or any useful information referring to the function / control etc - put it there! If the community cooperates and takes this comment area for serious then .. a lot could be accomplished! Until now, neither the users of the French version nor those of the English version are ready to use the comment area properly. But, we can improve that.

- imho, the comment area for the Online Help System is for
* error reports
* feature requests
* small code snippets referring to the appropriate chapter
* links to examples / code / projects somwhere else on the web

- I don't know whether this is PC Soft's politics but
* they did not object to my error reports there
* they fixed the problem (e.g. see WeekNumber(..)) and deleted the now-useless comments.
perfect!

- imho, they can see all of the comments in a table / list. Remember, you can edit or even delete your comments if view of matter changes.

- no, you don't get a feedback.

If you believe that you found a malfunction then, in any case, make something which looks like a 'prove of concept' first. This will save you from making wrong accusations or useless disputes with Tech Support. I've found that many bugs are no bugs at all but just a misinterpretation of the function or its help text. Deplorably, the help text sometimes hides exceptions and special use of functions / controls in a tricky way. You have to read the Help thoroughly, sometimes one gets it only after reading it the fourth time.

I'd suggest to report a malfunction
a) to the forum in order to check out whether it is really an error, a well-known problem or just a misinterpretation / programming error
b) to PC Soft's Tech Support. Your language should be clear and concise, adding a 'prove of concept' project is helpful. First answers from Tech Support may be meaningless, maybe you have to read the answer three times to understand its meaning, sometimes answers are even downright wrong. Understand that Tech Support has to provide hundreds of answers per day and cannot devote a man-month for analysis of a single problem. Try to insist. Sometimes, Tech Support will have a heart and do the analysis. Tech Support issues ticket numbers for proven problems. Not for feature requests.
c) However, in any case if you can prove the problem, put a clear comment to the Help system. If you have a ticket# then put it there too, it makes it easier for the software guys to identify and fix it.

Kind regards,
Guenter

von GuenterP - am 24.12.2012 05:10
What about you talking???
The annotation on the help system do not work! I checked now.
When I click the link Annotate the JS error appear

SCRIPT5009: '__reinitNombre' is undefined
?2030054&verdisp=170, line 140 character 84

They cannot repair they own errors!

von Alexander S. - am 24.12.2012 07:53
Hi Guenter,

I tried in Firefox and IE9, I don't get an error, but nothing happens when I click "annotate".

Regards,
Piet

von Piet van Zanten - am 24.12.2012 09:49
Quote
Piet van Zanten
Hi Guenter,

I tried in Firefox and IE9, I don't get an error, but nothing happens when I click "annotate".

Regards,
Piet


go to the debugger and you will see the JS error on the page after click.

von Alexander S. - am 24.12.2012 09:56
Hi Guenter,

You don't have to call such a system buglist, it could also be called "known problems and workarounds".
But ok, let's try the Online Help Annotation, I'm not eager for extra work.
Hope it will work soon .:D

Regards,
Piet

von Piet van Zanten - am 24.12.2012 10:09
You're right, I see the same error.

von Piet van Zanten - am 24.12.2012 10:10
Are you talking about the "Annotate" in the top right & bottom left part of each online help page?

If so, then I get an "Identification required" login page when I click it [[5]]

Then if I click on the RSS icon, I got a huge list of postings... in French of course! :rolleyes:

von DarrenF - am 24.12.2012 13:05
Actually, it works fine... IF


- you are on the french site looking at the french help
- you are in the US site looking at the french help

but not if you are looking at the english help from both site :D

And of courses, annotation are NOT shared between the french and the US version of the help (by example, the uncrypt/décrypte function has 2 annotations... in French only)

Best regards

von Fabrice Harari - am 24.12.2012 13:42
Hi Fabrice,

So you say it's impossible to add an annotation to the English Help.
Do we need to report this then or did you already report it?

Regards, Piet

von Piet van Zanten - am 24.12.2012 14:15
Quote
Piet van Zanten
You're right, I see the same error.


Hi Piet,
yes, that's quite a bug! Btw, the xml-file produced by clicking on the RSS icon make a French-only file.
I'll send a bug report to Tech Support ... last time I used it, it did work. Maybe, while inserting v18 a major disaster struck the help system.
Should be fixed after the holidays. I'm sorry to find it in such bad condition ..
Kind regards,
Guenter

von GuenterP - am 25.12.2012 08:42
Quote
Piet van Zanten
Hi Guenter,

You don't have to call such a system buglist, it could also be called "known problems and workarounds".
But ok, let's try the Online Help Annotation, I'm not eager for extra work.
Hope it will work soon .:D

Regards,
Piet


Hi Piet,

I'm aware of the fact that many issues are fixed only after years of pounding at their door. Myself, I did / still do mention some deficiencies and offer workarounds on our web site http://www.windev.at The impact on our toolmaker has been virtually null. Probably, no one cared to read at all. Oh no, there was an incident about a year ago when I heard someone in Montpellier had noted that I wrote something about version 11, and suggested I should remove such old info. In fact, it dealt with RAD11 which is still in use in version 18.

In contrast, putting annotations to the Help system did gain some reactions and lead to a fix of a few issues. Of course, by no way annotations can represent the only means of publishing solutions / workarounds / interesting examples. Pete Halsted's blog http://www.thenextage.com/wordpress/ shows a nice way of how to offer a variety of information while steering clear from PCS's firing line.

Once upon a time, the French user community http://www.windasso.org/ under their former name WinDevAsso (the 'Dev' had to be deleted from the name after a legal dispute with PCS) offered a list of bugs with their ticket numbers. Since no one really knew whether things were fixed, in full or partial only, already fixed bugs showed up in the list for a long time. Mainly, this list contributed to their image of being an adversary of PC Soft. The fact that lots of useful information / downloads / links were offered on that site faded.

bottom line: I believe that it is a valuable asset to offer knowledge about and fixes to known problems and I will encourage you to start / maintain such a web site!

Kind regards,
Guenter

von GuenterP - am 25.12.2012 09:42
No Piet, it used to work just fine some weeks ago. I believe, the intro of v18 into the Help system has been made by someone who cared about the French system only and partially killed the English one. It's called 'destructive maintainence' - programmers often insert new features while introducing new bugs to the formerly working parts of the program. Nothing new to us and its kind of consolation that it happens to them as well as to us! Kind regards, Guenter

von GuenterP - am 25.12.2012 09:49
The annotation in English version still not working. What about it says? PC Soft do not think about his customers, only about many.

von Alexander S. - am 30.01.2013 08:10
Hi All,

I haven't yet tried this, but there is a combo in the upper right corner of the on-line help pages allowing to select the language, English of French. Maybe, if the language is first changed to French, then annotations could be added (in any language?)?

Best regards
Ola

von Ola - am 30.01.2013 09:58
Hi Ola, yes, one can log in and one can write an annotation - unfortunately to the French docs only! The English annotation system is dead since they added the v18 docs. Got a 'thank you!' for making them aware of the problem but nothing happened since then.
Kind regards,
Guenter

von GuenterP - am 30.01.2013 17:54
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