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Forum:
WinDev Forum
Beiträge im Thema:
23
Erster Beitrag:
vor 4 Jahren, 11 Monaten
Letzter Beitrag:
vor 4 Jahren, 10 Monaten
Beteiligte Autoren:
Michael Drechsel, Alexandre Leclerc, Allard, Ola, RAUL2, GuenterP, Giu, Yogi Yang, Geoff B, Viggo Poulsen, Miguel C., Piet van Zanten

the future of development

Startbeitrag von Allard am 25.05.2013 15:36

Hi
I am in the process of upgrading windev and webdev.
What do you think about the future of desktop apps and therefore windev? Is it still worth to upgrade to windev 18 or is it better to focus on webdev an Windev mobile.
Regards

Allard

Antworten:

Hi Allard,

I'm in the process of tapping into a Java application based on WinDev. Though there are many unsupported W-Language commands, many stemming from the fact that Java is / should be independent of the hardware-platform. However, in general it works (in my case together with a HFC/S database) and therefore offers a programming platform which is device independent. There are still many hurdles in my way, like signing the app, but I hope to end up with a working app for desktops and mobile devices too.

von GuenterP - am 25.05.2013 17:01
Hi Guenter,

if I correctly remember JAVA is not present on mobile devices like Android and IOS.

von Michael Drechsel - am 25.05.2013 18:14
Good question! Honestly, it seems to me that WB ain't a mature product, in opposite to WD. WD might have several bugs, but, it allows you to develop 2 times faster. Never tried WM, but I have the same impression as with WB.

There's too few documentation (and expertise, it seems) with WB between Wx developers. I think that's evident in WB questions (fewer questions, even more fewer answers). In order to migrate completely to a web environment, I don't find any "rapid" option; I'd say only .Net.

Maybe it's time (only my opinion) for PCS to change direction and make a good brand new WB product. A mature one, not only a one-year update. I don't know any serious company releasing one major version by year, and those versions dragging bugs from 2 or more older versions. Moreover, WAS should be included with WB, even if it means a higher purchase price. I mean a redistributable WAS.

I think (my opinion, again) that most of you would like, a brand new WB, developed in 2 or 3 years, and of course, more expensive but BETTER FOR REAL, that a kind of patch compiled in a "new" version.

Kind regards.

von RAUL2 - am 25.05.2013 21:43
Hi all,
Is there anyone developing a serious web app with webdev?

MC

von Miguel C. - am 28.05.2013 10:14
Hi Miguel

I have worked with WX a little more than 3/4 year now. I came from Clarion but needed some serious tool for Web and smartphone development.
My first project is a restaurant program with a Dynamic WB part in the kitchen and a QR driven dynamic AWP app used by the guests smartphones. It is in test right now, and looks promising.

Now i am working on a combined WM and WB (not AWP this time) project whitch I expect to be ready within a few month. It is an ordering system for small companies, with data and serverapp in the cloud, communication via webservices and all such stuff. I really like working with WX, and I feel that I can make some pretty cool things with it.

WB and WM really fits my needs for this kind of programs. I too runs into things that is erratic or strange behaving, but the same can be said about Clarion, C# and other languages and tools. I have found that WX is flexible enough, so I always can find another way of solving problems.

I have just upgraded to WX18. Partly because the new Surface chart looks empressive. I would love to toy around with it, and who knows, maby I even can find a project that someone just must have :-)

Best regards
Viggo Poulsen

von Viggo Poulsen - am 28.05.2013 11:35
Hi Miguel,

We do use it seriously to, for customer back-end on our Web Site (all made in WebDev and it looks good - website design is made by designers) and for online payments.

Last week PCSoft published a video about the internationnal group InterSport which are using a lot PCSoft

von Alexandre Leclerc - am 28.05.2013 12:17
What I wonder is how do you develop this kind of solution with such a few documentation. Only testing the examples? Maybe I'm missing something really important that I can't see!
Regards.

von RAUL2 - am 28.05.2013 12:39
Hi,

I have just finished a serious Webdev application for tennis clubs.
It was based on my old Windev application.
www.vztc.nl
Sorry, the site is in Dutch only, but you can see some screenshots there to get an impression.

Regards,
Piet

von Piet van Zanten - am 28.05.2013 12:57
Hi Alexandre,

>all made in WebDev and it looks good - website design is made by designers

Can we take a look at this ???? Live or as a screenshot ?

von Michael Drechsel - am 28.05.2013 13:41
Hi Michael,

This is the website of an old project that is in phase-out, but was one of our first. The design is home-made, but has PayPal integration. Very small site for a project that did not survive: http://www.axellius.com/US/. (Our SSL certificate is incorrect and we are talking with our hosting company to fix that problem right now)

This is our corporate site, only in French right now: http://www.ipso.ca

It's possible to build nice looking websites in WebDev. (Not super fancy with full of Ajax and animations, yet it's sufficient for us right now.)

Best regards,
Alexandre Leclerc

von Alexandre Leclerc - am 28.05.2013 15:16
Thx,

www.ipso.ca is very nice. But the grafics are a little bit to large (in bytes) or your server is to slow or my internet connection. I can see how each icon is drawn.

But it looks very professional.

von Michael Drechsel - am 28.05.2013 19:13
Hi all

I look at this question from the user's point of view, as "I eat my own dogfood", and have always eaten.

Please correct me if I am wrong, but based on my rather large experience on desktop apps and rather minimal one on web apps, I understand that a Windows application can be controlled and automated at the control level, while a web app can only be controlled and automated by the page or form level.

This overwhelmingly better controllability gives the possibility to create much better and more "intelligent" apps for Windows than for web.

I think that for "fixed-base" businesses Windows (or other desktop/lan systems) apps are better (or can be better...). This can also keep the company's strategic data out of internet, which is important for safety. Still, even desktop apps must currently have many kinds of connections to internet.

Of course there are businesses which greatly benefit from the global accessibility of web apps.

And the "looks" is not important at all in the long run. I much appreciate a fluently and intuitively running ugly app with good readability over a beautiful but clumsy and awkward one.

br
Ola

von Ola - am 28.05.2013 19:26
Hi Michael,

The website is hosted in Montreal (Canada). It's very fast here for our market. Google's bot page load speed for our site is 364 ms in average (low 189, high 638). When they were putting comparison with other sites, we were in the 1-2% fastest. All made in WebDev.

But I guess that it might be something else outside of the country for some reasons.

Best regards,
Alexandre Leclerc

von Alexandre Leclerc - am 28.05.2013 19:41
Ok,

It's a lot of water between Montreal and Berlin [[1]]

von Michael Drechsel - am 28.05.2013 19:59
Hi Ola,

As far as the look is concerned it might be different from one country to another. Our business have a 20 years super-mature bullet-proof ERP windows based software that can do many complex things very well. It happen we lost some contracts here and there because the interface was looking "ordinary" or complex. Competitors were selected because they looked better. Usually, about one to two years later we often hear that these failed to implement. (Not all of them, for sure.)

So the look is also important, especially on a marketing point of view (especially for websites and anything that gives an image of your business). Today, in our market, people are influenced by the look of things. And this is a reality. (When you don't totally know what you are buying, you make you impression on what you see and hear about the product. The better you are looking and convincing, the greater the chances you have the deal - even if your software is not perfect or has bugs.)

But this is only a personal observation. I think a software should be solid and well built and also good looking as much as possible. (Why investing 50K$ or 250K$ per year on a software and not being able to put only 1% or 0.5% of it's development value to make it good looking and user oriented? Polish the interface and make it shiny after all this hard work!)

Best regards,
Alexandre Leclerc

von Alexandre Leclerc - am 28.05.2013 20:06
Hi Alexander,

I am sure you are right. In the short term the looks is important.

br
Ola

von Ola - am 28.05.2013 21:06
Webdev doesn't support responsive design, so websites developed with it will be hard to use on mobile devices, unless you develop a separate set of pages for mobile devices, in which case it becomes hard for the developer to maintain.

von Geoff B - am 29.05.2013 00:20
Hi responsive design is not always that good. If you create a mobile template you can use all your procedures etc. indeed you have to create a seperate site but users love it.

OLa
In Holland lots of businesses use online apps to maintain their financial data, even big companies.We might think that it is not wise to put all your stuff in the cloud. It seems the customer doesnot care. And it is the customer that desides what he wants.

I think webdev is cool but it seems to me pcsoft is developing its own enviroment and in that way takes on the entire world. New stuff in webdev 18 is common in webdevelopment. It is used for quite some time by other companies who use php and jquery

It is possible to use jquery in webdev ( lst has an example , i believe) I donnot get it why pc soft doesnot base webdev on standards like jquery. The same about css. It isnot possible to let someone else make a css so they can chage the look and feal of a site.

just my opinion

Allard

von Allard - am 30.05.2013 12:28
Allard,

I asked the same some time ago, because we are thinking to move from the platform where I develop now, to WX products, and for the responses, I'm still studying what to do.

http://27130.foren.mysnip.de/read.php?27131,158487,158487#msg-158487


::EDITED::

Sorry, I misunderstood the 1st question

von Giu - am 30.05.2013 14:55
Quote
Michael Drechsel
Hi Guenter,

if I correctly remember JAVA is not present on mobile devices like Android and IOS.


Hi Michael,

I thought I could make it work anyway but had to accept that there are too many other hurdles which inhibit any progress on that path. I stopped it and I'm back for a Windows executable ...

von GuenterP - am 30.05.2013 17:03
But WAS (Linux or windows version) is enough stable and robust?

Apache for example, is well know for its stability. I'm afraid about deploy a WB solution in cloud in SaaS model, and WAS crashing letting my customers without the possibility to continue his work.

I don't talk about a corporate site only showing information, I speak about an invoice management software using it by 300/400 users

von Giu - am 31.05.2013 15:04
Quote
RAUL2
In order to migrate completely to a web environment, I don't find any "rapid" option; I'd say only .Net.

Give CodeCharegStudio a close look. It is probably the only web app tool that is really a RAD for multiple web scripting languages including .NET, Perl, PHP, etc.

Of course I do not use it personally but it is worth a close look.

HTH

Yogi Yang

von Yogi Yang - am 01.06.2013 05:05
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