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WinDev Forum
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41
Erster Beitrag:
vor 2 Jahren, 8 Monaten
Letzter Beitrag:
vor 2 Jahren, 8 Monaten
Beteiligte Autoren:
StanleyBarnett, Al, JP, stefan.kern, Peter Holemans, Art Bonds, Gary Williams, Arie

WinDev, WebDev & WinDev Mobile from a VFP Perspective

Startbeitrag von StanleyBarnett am 03.12.2015 17:39

Hi,

Are any vfp developers using the WinDev, WebDev & WinDev Mobile sdks from PC Soft from France? If so, please share your likes and dislikes.

I need to build desktop, web and mobile apps. I started developing VFP apps back in 1998. I'm hitting the 2gb limits in many of the language's commands and functions as well as table file limits.

I've tried many including Alpha Anywhere solutions and wound up abandoning them. I'd like to find something that offers a near single code base, and one that uses a paradymne similar to VFP.

So far, the best I've found is PC Soft's tools. So, what would you all adopt?

Thanks,
Stanley

Antworten:

Re: WinDev, WebDev & WinDev Mobile from a VFP Perspective

Hello Stanley

You will find quite a few developers here that have moved from Foxpro and VFP so there should be no issues getting help with specifics and a search of the forum will turn up a few threads on swapping over. As a general rule the transfer is painless and quick provided you don't try and make Windev do VFP. I have apps in Windev, Android mobile and am just starting with Webdev development and I have always been able to deliver whatever I needed to do.

Using VFP for that long, I would guess you are from the USA and if so there is a community of programmers there.
http://27130.foren.mysnip.de/read.php?27131,553812
http://27130.foren.mysnip.de/read.php?27131,553692,553889#msg-553889

Regards
Al

von Al - am 03.12.2015 18:32

Re: WinDev, WebDev & WinDev Mobile from a VFP Perspective

Hi Stanley,

I used to program in VFP and switched to WD a few years ago.

Compared to VFP the GUI is very modern, and sometimes for my opinion to playfull.

But the concepts are very close to VFP, so you can do a Job in windev in a very similar way than in VFP.

The commands are different, but for nearly every command in VFP I found an equivalent in WD. The structure of the code, the way you use classes, the way you access databases and so one are very similar to VFP.

I played around with some other languages before I switched to WD (Omnis, Servoy etc. etc.), and for me WD is the best choice for VFP programers, as the learning curve is low.

There are 2 things I miss:
- The command window
- The possibility to use visual classes. Instead of visual classes you can use control templates, but for me they are not as nice to handle than visual classes in VFP.

But as conclusion for me WD is something like VFP10+, with a lot of features VFP never head.

If you have further questions, please ask.
You could also send a mail.

Best Regards

Stefan.

von stefan.kern - am 03.12.2015 19:19

Re: WinDev, WebDev & WinDev Mobile from a VFP Perspective

Hi Stanlyn,

I started moving from VFP two years ago, most of my applications are still in VFP , but I have been gradually learning more WinDev and I am now doing all new stuff in WinDev and planning to move other applications across.

The biggest thing I miss from VFP is WinDev is not truly OOP, so you have to rethink your design strategy a bit. and as Al said "don't try and get WinDev to do VFP".

Graphically WinDev is much better than VFP and it's data manipulation is just as good, there are half a dozen functions I have written to give me similar functionality to VFP, but that's probably me just preferring certain syntax/naming.

BTW, WinDev can open VFP DBF files natively (no drivers, ODBC etc.), I am currently developing a dashboard app in WinDev that reads DBF files across multiple folders, loads data into a WinDev class array and then manipulates that data for performance graphs. Dashboard and graphs are standard controls in WinDev so this is much easier in WinDev than VFP.

I would recommend getting yourself a mentor, there are a few around, that you can throw random questions at as I don't find the user documentation as easy to navigate as say the Hackers Guide to VFP.

Gary.

von Gary Williams - am 03.12.2015 19:41

Re: WinDev, WebDev & WinDev Mobile from a VFP Perspective

Hi Stefan,

Yes, I'm in the US.. .

You mention the command window as something you miss... This has been major for me adopting other sdks. I use the command window a lot while building udfs' (user defined functions).

So how do you do that in WinDev? When playing with and testing native commands and see its output in the command window we would enter:

These are simple examples that can be these while learning what to expect as output..
?transform(date()) shows 12/3/2015
?TRANSFORM(DATEtime()) shows 12/3/2015 2:40:36 PM
? LEFT(TRANSFORM(DATEtime()) shows 12/3/2
?type(123) shows N (numeric)
?type('123') or ?type("123") or ?type([123]) shows C (character)
?upper("test this") shows "TEST THIS"

A more advanced usage...
lcSeedKey = "38e5k34y^7a9r67#2z@e6p5u87tp6h7q"
lcActualFileEncryptionKey = Alltrim(Right(Alltrim(lcSeedKey), 4) + lcSeedKey + Left(Alltrim(lcSeedKey), 4))
?lcActualFileEncryptionKey shows '6h7q38e5k34y^7a9r67#2z@e6p5u87tp6h7q38e5'

and
lcPath = Strtran(Sys(16), 'PROCEDURE ' + Program(), '')
?lcPath (shows the folder the currently running program is located in)
notice the combination of 2 functions used here...

Now how do I do this stuff in WinDev? So far WinDev looks the best replacement tool, but this lack of a command window replacement is trying to be a show stopper here?

I've also prepared an in-depth feature and will-it-do-it list and several folks that has looked at it either doesn't understand some of the power what we VFP'ers would loose by switching. They just say do the demo. I did, and clearly saw so many things missing, such as property sheets for each of the objects. I remember looking for a long time for the main form's background color and picture properties. Got frustrated and quit the demos and started spending time in the help files and forums, which has answered a lot of the my list's questions.

Also frustrating was that I could not use any of my data due to purchasing some sort of MSSQL connector.

Would you be up to reviewing the list and offer your observations and hints?

Thanks so much for helping...
Stanley

von StanleyBarnett - am 03.12.2015 20:13

Re: WinDev, WebDev & WinDev Mobile from a VFP Perspective

Hello Stan

I came to Windev from Foxpro and yes loosing the dot prompt was a huge issue but there are 2 "GO" buttons as a replacement, one runs the current window and the other runs the application. In the early days, as a substitute I had a window called test and I put a button on the window and then placed the code to be executed in the button. All you do then is use the window "GO" option and click the button - you can use the debugger to step through the code if needed. Sounds tedious but in practice it is as quick and had the side benefit of teaching me Windev code and kept a record of all those things I tried. After a while I didn't bother with it anymore. WDMap is very handy for looking into the data during development.

Your comment about the graphics is normal for a newcomer to Windev and is just a case of not knowing where to look and applying the rules of their current tool to the new one. There would be probably 10 different ways to apply a background to a window. The simplest - not the best - would be Mywindow..BrushColor = PastelYellow in the window init code. From that simple statment, the the light bulb goes on and you realise that the ..brushcolor attribute can be applied to almost anything, you have also learned somthing fundamental - there are very many ..attributes and they solve a myriad of issues and there is a range of "My???" values that you can use.

Regards
Al

von Al - am 03.12.2015 20:56

Re: WinDev, WebDev & WinDev Mobile from a VFP Perspective

Hi Stanley,

yes, the command window is something I really miss ....

Quote
stanlyn

These are simple examples that can be these while learning what to expect as output..
?upper("test this") shows "TEST THIS"

Thanks so much for helping...
Stanley


I do following:
I create a procedure (VFP: .prg) called test, and would do:

sOut is string = UPPER("test this in WD")

trace(sOut)

It would be nice, if you share your list.

Best Regards

Stefan.

or:
trace(UPPER("test this in WD"))

Trace will give you an output window, you could compate it with "wait window" in VFP ...
But I need to put the code in this procedure (.prg) and execute it .... you can do the same as in the command window, but its more complicated ....

I think missing the command window is not a show stopper, but it was a really nice feature ....

von stefan.kern - am 03.12.2015 21:03

Re: WinDev, WebDev & WinDev Mobile from a VFP Perspective

oops ...
a copy pase mistake in the post above

von stefan.kern - am 03.12.2015 21:06

Re: WinDev, WebDev & WinDev Mobile from a VFP Perspective

Here are some questions myself and any VFP programmer would be interested in having answers to. I've been studying the WinDev, WebDex, and mobile and have many questions. Many of the questions can be easily answered by an experienced WinDev deloper, so I figured this would be a good place to start. Many of these questions has surfaced while surfing the forums and the demos.

1. Better Videos as they are too small (Need full screen)
2. HPSQL and geo-geography fields
3. How is "disconnected state" handled?
4. Can new records be added and existing ones be updated while in a disconnected state?
5. Is Conflict Resolution automatic, showing each of the conflicts allowing the user to pick the winning choice.
6. What is "Internal Windows" and what are some use case senerios?
7. When purchasing all 3 sdks, is there a seperate key for eash sdk so they can be used on different machines? Like I may have a machine setup best for web dev, can I do web dev on that machine and Win dev on a different machine?
8. What is the Return Policy?
9. Is there a character to cause LineWrapping or continuations?
10. What is "Action Plan"? How is it used?

11. What is "Integrated Software Factory"? How is it used?
12. What CANNOT be done via code that we could do in VFP?
13. Any connectivity for VFP to allow converting VFP data to HFSQL?
14. Can HFSQL support large 100gb tables?
15. Any "Auto Application Update" libraries for use in our developed apps that provides auto updates for our apps to our customers? How easy is it for us to app auto updates to our apps?
16. On WinDev's advertising page, Item 634 titled "HFSQL Auto reconnect (can we keep adding data when disconnected), see Q4 & 5 above as they are related...
17. Any builtin "Security & User Login" System libraries for adding to our apps?
18. Is Code Completion fully implemented?
19. What is the max string size?
20. Max file size functions and procedures work with?

21. ODBC drivers to get at VFP data?
22. I never saw any DoubleClick events as well as many others on main form and other methods.
23. From code, can I set a windows top, left, enabled, width, height, type (modal or modeless), visibility, and many other PEMS from code OUTSIDE the window? PEMS=Properties, events, and methods)
24. Any 2gb limits anywhere?
25. File to Ascii Binary String and Asci Binary String to File functions?
26. Change PEMs for all controls and objects be changed via code?
27. Is the reporting system fully object oriented?
28. Is the menuing system fully object oriented?
29. Is 256b AES supported? (I did not see it)
30. Where are the training videos for new features past 16? There are no hiow to videos for versions 17, 18, 19, or 20... Last online was for version 16...

31. Can we fully create and modify databases and tables in code?
32. Can we edit on existing database on table in Code?
33. Is SQL PassThru supported?
34. Any concept of an expressions window similar to VFP's command window where we can easly on-the-fly test, create expressions without building any ??? structure? For example: how would you test and build a routine that returns characters 6 thru 9 on a long formatted date that actually was a product of a function?
35. How do we test procedures and functions
36. Max size of binary fields in a HFSQL table? (native) In other words, can I store a 20gb encrypted video file inside the table?
37. If not to Q36, then can we use something sililar to MSSQL's filestream finctionality?
38. Is multi-page TIF supported? Do we have full support on individual page manulapation in a TIF multi-page file as well as navigating them?
39. Hit Highlighting for searches supported in records returned from a search?
40. What is Analysis? It looks like Data, in much the same way Entities are used in the "Entity Framework"?

41. Any functions that can detect if file is already encrypted?
42. What are the database table field's types? (int, char, binary, numeric and ....)
43. Are all the deployment tools included?
44. What are the deployment cost per customer that we sell an application to? Many use SQL Express...
45. I'm also in the state of Kentucky where their platform of choice is Microsoft Windows, SQL, Exchange and Sharepoint, therefore when we propose a solution, it is immediately shot down if not built using their adapted Microsoft standards. Therefore, we have adapted SQL and SQL Express for all development work. It appears that WinDev pricing will make a lot of our application cost prohibitive where Express is used. True???? I'm really looking for a unified platform...
46. Context sensitive help available?
47. ToolTips?
48. Set Time on Context Sensitivity help
49. Is there a features matrix on all versions so I can really see what the product offers. I'm sure that none of their promotionals discusses features, commands, functions that originated way back in version 1, 2, 3, 4, and etc. I've been looking for a complete listing of all commands, functions, events, properties, methods, and controls. Examples, full description, syntax, usage, and limitations concerning each would also be very helpfull?
50. Any good english based forums that you would recommend?

51. What is WD Swever?
52. Cost of staying current via upgrades as v18 to 19 and v19 to 20?
53. Is report writer single user? See forum item #27130
54. Can the web sites be hosted on IIS or Apache?
55. Performance... On average, how many users can a quad core processor with ssd disks and 64gb memory support on a site serving query requests and graphics similar to ebay?
56. What is your dev server used for?
57. Is there a WinDev developer network where newbies like me can get tutoring and hire mentoring servises as development services?
58. "A binary memo item can contain up to 4 GB." Is that still true? This came from a 2008 forum post.
59. Functions to import and export to & from common formats such as csv?
60. When an dwhere is the next conference?

61. What is a looper? Why? Used for what?
62. Can command shortcuts be used in the code? In VFP we can use modi or modify as most most commands can be abreviated to their first 4 characters. "modi stru" is actually "modify structure"
63. Can reports be chained together?
64. What is "Hyper File Classic" and how does it differ from HyperFile whatever its new name is?
65. Image formats supported by image control?
66. Image formats supported by scanner save functions?
67. Is OCR supported?
68. I just found a lot of commands that are limited to 2gb as I had asked earlier. They are fWrite, fMerge,
69. Any code reflection features where if you need to change the name of an object, is there a way for it to replicate those changes to all reference to it automatically? Also know as refactoring...

70. Where is the reference to all these prefixes such as the H in HDelete, HNb in HNbRec, f in fCreate and so on...
71. Is there any users that has migrated to the WinDev toolset from Visual Foxpro that I can discuss the issues they encountered and resolutions for getting around them?

72. Why is version 21 as shown on PC Soft's website and version 20 as highest version available elsewhere?
73. Any additional licenses and fees for replication features?
74. I'm seeing references in the forums that encourages to switch back to the 32 bit version as many of the 64bit features are missing or buggy. Why should we avoid 64bit?
75. Referring to Q24 and Q68 above, would the 2gb limitations be gone if using the 64bit version of the IDE?

Thanks,
Stanley

von StanleyBarnett - am 03.12.2015 21:13

Re: WinDev, WebDev & WinDev Mobile from a VFP Perspective

Hi VFP people,
I have a Delphi and C/C++ background so I dont know what you mean by 'command window' exactly.
But you can build a simple test window yourself and use the Compile() function.

- create a window
- add 2 edit-fields
- add a button
- add this (simplified) code to the button

sRes is string = Compile("DynProc",(EDT_Field1))
EDT_Field2 = ExecuteProcess("DynProc",trtProcedure)

So here you have something like a command window :spos:

Run this window and edit something like RESULT Upper('abcde') into Edit1, push the button and you will see ABCDE in Edit2

You can create a separate exe for this window.
I include something like this in every project, so i can use it in the context of my current application.

von Arie - am 03.12.2015 21:17

Re: WinDev, WebDev & WinDev Mobile from a VFP Perspective

Hi Gary and Al,

>> "don't try and get WinDev to do VFP".

I really don't know how to interpret this. Can you be a bit more specific...

Thanks,
Stanley

von StanleyBarnett - am 03.12.2015 21:19

Re: WinDev, WebDev & WinDev Mobile from a VFP Perspective

Hi Stefan,

>> I create a procedure (VFP: .prg) called test, and would do:

When doing this in WinDev, why are you using VFP and .prg in the line above? Are you in VFP or WinDev?

Thanks,
Stanley

von StanleyBarnett - am 03.12.2015 21:29

Re: WinDev, WebDev & WinDev Mobile from a VFP Perspective

Hello Stan

Quote
>> "don't try and get WinDev to do VFP". I really don't know how to interpret this. Can you be a bit more specific...


The correct geek answer is that question is "use the force Stan". In other words, Windev is developed in France in French and that introduces a world of difference in the basic design of the tool, the features it offers and the way it works so you simply cannot transfer your VFP methods and code something the same way in Windev.

Don't be put off by that, embrace the way Windev does things and you will be surpised at how easy everything becomes.


Regards
Al

von Al - am 03.12.2015 21:51

Re: WinDev, WebDev & WinDev Mobile from a VFP Perspective

Hi Arie,

I just finished looking at the Delphi RAD Studio 10 from Embarcadero, and it too did not have an command window equivalent. The "command window" allows us to execute any VFP command, function and/or udfs (user defined functions) and instantly see the output it produced relative to the current task (or not relative to the task).

So, if I understand you correctly, you created your own command window where you can easily enter a valid combination of WinDev commands and functions and quickly get its results. Does it allow the execution of multiple commands and functions? The input string entered into the test window's textbox can contain a complex series of commands and/or functions and the output is shown.

For example in VFP's command window:
Commands... , If I enter a VFP command like "BROWSE' I get a browse window showing the currently selected table's data where all CRUD operations can be performed.

If I enter a command like "replace field_1 with 'newvalue' rest", it will replace the value for field "field_1" to newvalue in all records starting at the current one to the end of the table. It could also be a sql command like: insert into mytable (field1, field2) values (1, "test")

Functions... If I enter a function such as "?left("can of the",3) it displays "can"...

You can also execute multiple lines at once by selecting them and executing them. If there is relevancy, then it is factored in as well such as assigning values to variables before running the function that uses it.

Thanks,
Stanley

von StanleyBarnett - am 03.12.2015 21:57

Re: WinDev, WebDev & WinDev Mobile from a VFP Perspective

Quote
stanlyn
Hi Stefan,

>> I create a procedure (VFP: .prg) called test, and would do:

When doing this in WinDev, why are you using VFP and .prg in the line above? Are you in VFP or WinDev?

Thanks,
Stanley

Hi Stan,

I create a procedure, which is for me the equavalent of a prg in vfp ....

von stefan.kern - am 03.12.2015 22:00

Re: WinDev, WebDev & WinDev Mobile from a VFP Perspective

Hello Stan

WDMap is the replacement for Browse in a command window. There is also the HyperFile control centre but I find WDMap much better during development


Regards
Al

von Al - am 03.12.2015 22:04

Re: WinDev, WebDev & WinDev Mobile from a VFP Perspective

Hi Al,

>> WDMap is the replacement for Browse in a command window

OK, so how do you open and select the table, and execute WDMap in an ad-hoc fashion?

Thanks,
Stanley

von StanleyBarnett - am 04.12.2015 00:06

Re: WinDev, WebDev & WinDev Mobile from a VFP Perspective

Hello Stan

There are a couple of ways.
Open Windows explorer and have the folder holding the datafiles open - you can double click on the .fic file and use the Windows associations to open it.

Have the project analysis open and right click on a file and select "edit with WDMap"
This defaults to the project\exe folder but you can use any folder.

There are functions in WDMap to add,alter,delete, replace data, search, filter by query, column filters or Ctrl Q and you can nominate columns to display.

One thing to keep in mind with Windev, data files (.fic) are never referred to as "tables", they are always just files. A table is a control in a window to display data.

I think most Windev developers would be using 2-3 screens so these things are not an issue and to be honest 2 screens is a basic requirement.

Regards
Al

von Al - am 04.12.2015 00:44

Re: WinDev, WebDev & WinDev Mobile from a VFP Perspective

Hi Al,

>> data files (.fic) are never referred to as "tables", they are always just files.

Strange, then how would we discuss the file types to each other? How are we differentiating the files type? Normally if we discuss a file that contains rows and columns, we say table, and a database is a collection of tables. A program can contain a collection of procedures and functions, or just a single procedure or function.

So, what do we say when discussing a file of type:
database,
table,
screen,
selection,
record,
program,
class,
report,
menu,
connection,
code,

Also, can each of the above listed types be contained inside its own file or contained in some sort of a container structure?

Thanks,
Stanley

von StanleyBarnett - am 04.12.2015 01:35

Re: WinDev, WebDev & WinDev Mobile from a VFP Perspective

Hi,

Could someone explain the logic behind naming a data table with a .fic extension?

Also, what is the logic behind naming databases, tables, and data as analysis? Analysis means something total different in English, doesn't it?

Thanks,
Stanley

von StanleyBarnett - am 04.12.2015 01:38

Re: WinDev, WebDev & WinDev Mobile from a VFP Perspective

Hello Stanley

You will find a lot of this in the help text that came with the demo version you downloaded

Look for "Windev"

You will find sections in that for limits, extensions, general environment etc

To answer your specific question
database - there isn't a file type for this. The datafiles,indexs and memo files are wrapped up inside a database instance that runs in the HyperFile Client Server but the collection of files has no extension.

table(dbf) = .fic
cdx = .ndx
mmo = .mmo

screen = .wdw

selection = if you mean an SQL query then .wdr

record - I don't know what you mean

program - if you mean .prg, there are none. The screens (.wdw) are probably the closest thing to a .prg file.

class = .wdc

report = .wde

menu - contained within windows

connection = nominated in the project init generally from an ini file

code - collections of procedures .wdg


Regards
Al

von Al - am 04.12.2015 01:52

Re: WinDev, WebDev & WinDev Mobile from a VFP Perspective

Hi Al,

>> menu - contained within windows

So to create a desktop app that has the traditional "file, edit, ....., windows, and help menu, would I create a master window that all other windows runs within, therefore allowing a menu to always be available controlling all the apps features?

Then would navigational controls be placed on their related forms/windows?

Thanks,
Stanley

von StanleyBarnett - am 04.12.2015 02:18

Re: WinDev, WebDev & WinDev Mobile from a VFP Perspective

Hello Stanley

Looks like everyone else has gone to bed !

Yes and No

You are correct in your master window concept. Whether it is "always available" in the strictest sense would depend on whether the window called from the master window was created using the Open(windowname) in which case the window are modal and only the current window has focus or the next window was called as openchild/sister in which case both windows can have focus.
There is also the option to setup windows as free, MDI parent or MDI child.

My windows are all modal so the navigation for me is either open another window or close the current window and drop back to the previous window

I am not attempting to answer any of your VFP related questions as I swapped over to Windev from Foxpro and never really got into VFP.

Regards
Al

von Al - am 04.12.2015 03:20

Re: WinDev, WebDev & WinDev Mobile from a VFP Perspective

Hi Al,

>> Whether it is "always available" in the strictest sense would depend on whether the window called from the master window was created using the Open(windowname) in which case the window are modal

Does it have to be modal? If no, how are modeless windows called from the master window?
Doesn't "Open(windowname)" have a parameter that determines modality?
Doesn't the window have a property that determines if or not the window is modal? And can't that property be set via code at runtime?

My apps allows its users the freedom to open up "and work in" any window at any point in time. They can open the customer window, the payables window, history window, reports window, and on and on, and all without caring about what other window is opened or what the user is doing.

Is there a concept of "private data sessions" where each window has their own private use of the underlying data table. Example, I open the customers window 3 times and each window can have a different sort order and selection than any of the others, hence "private".

Now to contrast "private data sessions", is there a "shared data session" whereas one window inherits the data session from another?

Thanks,
Stanley

von StanleyBarnett - am 04.12.2015 05:58

Re: WinDev, WebDev & WinDev Mobile from a VFP Perspective

Hello Stanley

Whether a window is modal or not depends on open verb used to open it and also if it is defined as MDI child MDI may answer your multiple windows at any time question but it is not an area I have expertise in.

Windows can be marked as "Use independent HyperFile context " which sets up a private data session for that window and ig that is not ticked then the current data positions are used.

If you look up "MDI Functions" in the help you will see that there is a note about to an example in the training section. This is typical of the help process in terms of haiving links to practical examples that you can work through.

Regards
Al

von Al - am 04.12.2015 06:11

Re: WinDev, WebDev & WinDev Mobile from a VFP Perspective

Hello Stanlyn

I come from a VFP background and switched to full WinDev programming a couple of years ago. I cannot answer your 70+ questions simply due to time constraints but I can say that, imo, WinDev can do everything VFP can do and much more and in a very much more productive IDE. In addition, the way in which you build projects (i.e. the way you think about it, construct it with windows, reports, dialogs, etc.) and the coding syntax is very similar to VFP. You should feel right at home.

Command Window - there is no command window like VFP but there is a "Trace" window which serves a similar purpose. You can easily create a dummy button on any window, add some testing code to the button click, and run the window in test mode to see the effect of the test code. I initially thought I would miss the VFP command window but I don’t miss it at all now. For WinDev readers - the VFP command window was a window that was open in the IDE itself and you could just type VFP coding commands in it and press enter and the IDE would execute that code directly. It was useful to quickly see the result of some code that you wanted to check. But it was limited, obviously, in what code you could realistically run.

WDMAP - this is not a replacement for the VFP browse as another person commented. WDMAP is a database utility that allows you to look into the data files, reindex them, search them, interactively query them, etc. For browse type operations WinDev has far more powerful options than the VFP browse. Look at the help for TABLE controls.

Not doing VFP way in WinDev - what posters mean by this is that you have to learn WinDev and the way WinDev works and not try to force the VFP way of doing things into your thinking. That only makes sense - each IDE has its own ways and techniques and one should go with the flow rather than hold onto another way of thinking. Having said that, WinDev development, syntax, and way of building apps is very similar to VFP.

I created quite a long thread comparing VFP and WinDev on the Universal Thread forum website complete with screenshots. I explained the WinDev analysis (which is awesomely powerful in WinDev and which VFP has no equivalent) and many other aspects. I wrote the thread to help VFP developers consider WinDev as an option for the future. There are some things VFP did faster than WinDev (e.g. speed of form/screen updates) but WinDev does so very many more things better than VFP that the few things VFP can claim as a win are limited.

Personally I think WinDev is fantastic. Nothing is perfect, everything requires a learning curve, but the product is, by and large, excellent. I cannot speak for WinDev Mobile or WebDev as I have not used them. There are many very knowledgeable gurus on this website who offer a great service both for free and as consultants.

von JP - am 04.12.2015 07:46

Re: WinDev, WebDev & WinDev Mobile from a VFP Perspective

Hi Stan,

Went quickly though the posts above and filtered some questions I'll try to shed some light on...

Modal/Non-Modal/MDI
Applications these days are all non-modal and only have modal windows when that is an absolute requirement to force the user to review something. MDI is also out of fashion for more than a decade now, so I never used it actually.
So in general you'll use rather OpenSister instead of open to make your application non-modal. As-of V20 you can even have this browser like where the windows open as seperate dockable tabbed windows in the main application window.

Styles like Background Color. How to change this?
In WX you best work with your project style sheet to define UI attributes like the background color or image of a window. Whenever you change the style sheet it will then be automatically applied to all windows.
1) double click the window background, the 7 tab pages open, go to the style tab and change it there.
2) show the modifier pane via the menu for fast access to properties: Home->Panes->Modifier
3) define your template window(s) from which you inherit styles and base behaviour. Changing the template will apply it toi all windows inheriting from it
4) by code

So as you see there are many ways to modifiy this property... Choose whatever suits you best.

Command line
There are several ways to do the same.
What I would suggest are the following three possibilities
1) Create a test window with a multiline text memo field in there in which you can type any WL-Code. Add a button with the following code: Trace(ExecuteCode(CodeTypedInEditField)). You just created your own command window...
2) Create a dummy window with a button to do the code and use the Trace() statement to output it to the trace window
3) Create a dummy global set of procedures and a dummy procedure in there. Right click and 'Generate the test scenario'.
In the test editor write your code and write the result tot the test result or just review it using the Trace() statements

As you see, although WX is a pretty closed black box it will allow you almost always to find a workaround to get things done...

More Videos
Indeed it looks like it has been ages that PCSoft updated their English website.
You'll find tons of video's on their French website even of the new V21.
These are YouTube videos so you can try the auto-translate feature.
http://www.pcsoft.fr/windev/videos.htm
YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/PCSOFTdotFR


Cheers,

Peter H.

von Peter Holemans - am 04.12.2015 07:51

Re: WinDev, WebDev & WinDev Mobile from a VFP Perspective

Thanks JP,

Looks like a new subscription to UniversalThread. Thanks so much for sharing, as your post has motivated me to take the next steps...

Thanks,
Stanley

von StanleyBarnett - am 04.12.2015 16:46

Re: WinDev, WebDev & WinDev Mobile from a VFP Perspective

Stanlyn,

Universal Thread is free. Just register, login. I'll link you thread I created.

von JP - am 04.12.2015 17:04

Re: WinDev, WebDev & WinDev Mobile from a VFP Perspective

Thanks Peter,

Thanks for explaining the how-tos, especially the "command window" replacement procedures.

As for the videos, we really need fresh English tutorials. I've tried the French versions of the older stuff without much success. Cannot read the screens and cannot understand the authors, so really not very useful. (No idea what they are doing...)

The older videos are useful but many of the new fixes and features are missing and making them outdated. Fresh WinSev, WinDev Mobile, and WebDev videos are all important to me as I want to select a sdk that can handle all as a single code base. This next sdk will be replacing VFP, therefore I really don't have the time to learn multiple code base languages... That is what is wrong with the .net platform. imo. Too many different technologies to learn, even for simple stuff.

A video showing the construction of a real mobile app, say using the camera and saving the photos to a parent/child database would be most helpful.

Thanks again,
Stanley

von StanleyBarnett - am 04.12.2015 17:06

Re: WinDev, WebDev & WinDev Mobile from a VFP Perspective

JP,

I saw yesterday a WinDev section on the UT and I tried to access it. I done that before finding this forum. I first posted this question in the VFP section on Tek-Tips and still no response after 2.5 days... http://www.tek-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=1759311

UT wants 129.95 CDN when I tried to access. I have an old account, and have not used in years. The account is still good, just had to do a password reset. Then to access the threads, they put up a buy subscription page.

Was wondering if there is enough WinDev stuff there that would justify the $130?

Thanks for the link...
Stanley

von StanleyBarnett - am 04.12.2015 17:20

Re: WinDev, WebDev & WinDev Mobile from a VFP Perspective

Stanley,

This is news to me. I believe the forum is free. No there is not enough WD content there for CDN130. I have emailled the UT owner to ask for confirmation that the site is now susbcription only. I see many users on there that are not subscribers. If you want to use the search functions then there is a subscription required but, to my knowledge, not otherwise. I shall reply shortly again when I have confirmation.

von JP - am 04.12.2015 17:48

Re: WinDev, WebDev & WinDev Mobile from a VFP Perspective

Stanley

The admin of the UT has confirmed with me that the site is free. Only the search function requires a subscription. Simply navigate your way to the WinDev section or post a general question in the chatter section and I shall post a link there to the thread in question. You can then expand the entire thread and read my and others comments. If you still have a problem then post a message to UT admin or Michel and ask for help to access it.

von JP - am 04.12.2015 20:36

Re: WinDev, WebDev & WinDev Mobile from a VFP Perspective

Hi Stan,


Re:
Quote
Stan
A video showing the construction of a real mobile app, say using the camera and saving the photos to a parent/child database would be most helpful.


Well at every TDF there is this gimmick where PCSoft creates a working mobile application in less than 3 minutes and that is what you see here where a photo of a bottle of wine is added to a database. And this is from the TDF dating back to V18 three years ago...
http://www.pcsoft-windev-webdev.com/videos18/tdftech2013/live-android-3-min/index.html
http://www.pcsoft-windev-webdev.com/videos19/tdftech2014/3-min-pour-creer-une-application-android-avec-windev-mobile/index.html

Although the video doesn't really show you al the code in WM for iOS, Android or WP this is one command in Windev Mobile: PhotoRunApp
http://doc.windev.com/en-US/?1000021601&name=photorunapp_function

Cheers,

Peter H.

von Peter Holemans - am 04.12.2015 20:49

Re: WinDev, WebDev & WinDev Mobile from a VFP Perspective

Go here, http://help.windev.com/ and start searching. You can find pretty much most of the answers to your 70 plus questions here just by typing in some keywords (like "limitations" or "buffer").

Next, go to YouTube and type "wxlive webinar" in the search bar. There are around 150 videos on various subjects.

WxDevCon's (developers conferences) are held once a year, the last on was Oct '15. See http://www.wxdevcon.com/.

I come from a Clarion background, and while I could answer many of your basic questions (size limitations, etc) they (1) would not be from a VFP viewpoint, (2) it would take a lot of research time I don't have, and (3) giving you an answer to every question is like giving you a fish. I catch it, cook it (formulate an answer), and then give it to you. You really learned nothing beyond my answer, which may be incorrect anyways.

Instead I believe in teaching a man how to fish so he can help himself. If what you find in the Help and in the videos still confuses you, come back, reference the article/video and ask for clarification. As you go through a language keyword or function or whatever you find there is a "See Also" link to the right. That will lead you to even more stuff to read. But the important thing is if you go fishing yourself you will learn better than just being fed.

For me WinDev made programming fun again.

Art

von Art Bonds - am 05.12.2015 05:45

Re: WinDev, WebDev & WinDev Mobile from a VFP Perspective

One last thing. Search this forum. Try "Internal Windows" in this forum and in the Wx Help and you won't have to as Question #6. And there is a WxLive video on the subject also.

von Art Bonds - am 05.12.2015 05:48

Re: WinDev, WebDev & WinDev Mobile from a VFP Perspective

Hi Peter,

>> Well at every TDF

What is TDF?

Both videos featured speakers and screens all in French, so the only thing I get from the videos is that it is possible with no useful how-to info.

The PhotoRunApp function is just a small piece and there is so much to learn before using the function.

What I need is the beginner stuff in English that assumes nothing, and progresses until we have an app build and deployed...

Thanks for the dialog,
Stanley

von StanleyBarnett - am 05.12.2015 10:23

Re: WinDev, WebDev & WinDev Mobile from a VFP Perspective

Hi Art,

>> http://www.wxdevcon.com/

Contains advanced videos only. Nothing for a newbe getting started.


>> Go here, http://help.windev.com/ and start searching.

That is what I've been doing, and when I run across something that doesn't address all concerns, I ask here.


>> But the important thing is if you go fishing yourself you will learn better than just being fed.
That is precisely what I've been doing, Asking experts (you guys) the specifics of what I need so I can decide if I want to fish in this pond. There is just too much to learn here in a few days, that it is impossible to get done without the help from experts like you.

I just finished spending 2 hard weeks getting answers from the Alpha Anywhere folks which finally uncovered some hidden issues that caused me to look for a better solution. If I had done with Alpha as you have suggested, I'd still be wasting time there and still would not have uncovered the issues that caused me to leave.

And don't forget that you are not just doing this for me, but I'm sure other VFP'ers will delight in what all has been written here... And I want to thank you and all the others for their help in this journey.

I DID find a few videos that is helping and thanks for those tips.

It currently looks like I need to 1st forget WinDev and learn French, then come back to WinDev.... No, just kidding!

At this point, I can say that I will be purchasing all 3 WX products probably next week as well as some structured training!

Thanks again,
Stanley

von StanleyBarnett - am 05.12.2015 11:45

Re: WinDev, WebDev & WinDev Mobile from a VFP Perspective

Hi Stan,

Quote
Stan
At this point, I can say that I will be purchasing all 3 WX products probably next week as well as some structured training!


As you are coming from another language you are entitled the 'Competitive Exchange' which provides a discount of around 40%. Also verify that if you buy now you are also entitled the V21 version with your current purchase although currently only V20 in English and French is available (only beta of V21 in French is available). Normally as of the announcement of a new version any new purchase will entitle the upgrade to the new version. I think that is also through for the English version when the new French version is announced.

Next foresee a yearly early-bird upgrade fee of around 1000€/1000$ for all three products. As Mobile and Web are evolving at light speed currently you're in practice almost required to do the yearly upgrade. For WinDev it can be less relevant.

Just my 2 cents,

Peter H.

von Peter Holemans - am 05.12.2015 12:22

Re: WinDev, WebDev & WinDev Mobile from a VFP Perspective

Hi Peter,

Thanks for the purchasing tips and questions to ask them.

You hit on the issue that I am looking for current v20 videos in English for the mobile and web stuff, because as you said, they are evolving at warp speed and is not relevant a year later...

Thanks,
Stanley

von StanleyBarnett - am 05.12.2015 23:21

Re: WinDev, WebDev & WinDev Mobile from a VFP Perspective

Quote
stanlyn
... as well as some structured training!

I can highly recommend Glenn Rathke at http://www.wxtraining.net/. His Boot Camp training is what you need. Starts out with the basics and goes up from there. If you have him in person you can pick his mind.

If you talk to him tell him Art says HI. I am the one that got him into Windev many years ago (he still holds a grudge), this was back when I was hosting the WinDev Conference's (Fabrice Harari at http://datatale.com was our instructor... another great resource and instructor).

von Art Bonds - am 06.12.2015 02:09
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