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WinDev Forum
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vor 1 Jahr, 3 Monaten
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Beteiligte Autoren:
Allard, DerekM, kingdr, André Labuschagné, Fabrice Harari, KenKnight

webdev and "Big "deployment

Startbeitrag von Allard am 13.05.2016 16:17

Hi,

I know we have talked about this in the forum but I still like to ask . Does anyone have a big deployment with webdev and how does it work out?

With a big depoyment I mean a setting with a view thousand databases and up to about 10 users per db. Is webdev and the application server robust enough for this kind of deployment?

How does webdev and hyperfile cs stand to a product like servoy with uses tomcat and postgress

website servoy www.servoy.com


Regards
Allard

Antworten:

Hi Allard,

I guess you should ask somebody who does Webdev hosting, as what you describe is pretty much the situation on their shared servers... So you can go on the pcsoft website, get to the page with the list of hosting providers and send them an email with your questions...

Best regards

von Fabrice Harari - am 13.05.2016 18:03
Hi Allard

We have had 200 connections to one SQL database quite comfortably. The problem is not with the WAS but the drive space and bandwidth I would say.

What DB are you using?

Cheers
André

von André Labuschagné - am 17.05.2016 08:32
Hi Andre,

With big deplument I donnot mean 200 connections. I am talking more about comfortably at least a 1000.

( that would be 10 % of the total users ) . Not everybody will be using the system 24 / 7 so . But we need to be able to expand. since the company has a lot more customers that use the offline verison and will be joining in the coming years.

I have sent jerome ( pc soft ) an Email and he assured me that is is possible for there seems to be a school that useds webdev and they seem to have a view billion connections a month.!!
This is a real life example that proves his statement.

To get that he mentioned that one would better use AWP. Dynamic webdev is easier but with passing tokans to pages AWP could be used.

I asked him a question about this . I have tried to build something with awp and I had big problems AJAX etc, it looked like I didnot work.

The problem is I need a way to do some kind of Windows programm aproach for editing journal input. That is what they want. And even with dynamic webdev that is difficult to achief.

With the input of entries, grand ledger, there has to be connection to the db to see if VAT aplies etc.

Then they want records saved after each entry. for each entry an other entry has to be made ( double book keeping principle ).
Well so you see it is not all about deployment there are other issues. But deployment is a big issue since now they have big problems.

They are using postgress for DB.

regards
Allard

von Allard - am 20.05.2016 09:02
Hi Allard,

We have 10's of thousands of users that are using our web portals written in webdev. Most of the sites are full dynamic, however, some are awp. Our heavy months are around August, but at any given time you could see 500 to 1000+ connections.

We try to keep idle timeouts short on the site and create our own error page handlers for things such as timeouts etc so that we can redirect them appropriately.

The databases are Sybase SQL Anywhere and there's in excess of 500 of those scattered on multiple servers.

We've been using webdev for the last decade and I've seen dramatic differences in the webdev engine optimization over that period.

hope that helps.

Cheers!
ken

von KenKnight - am 01.06.2016 13:36
Quote
ken
We've been using webdev for the last decade and I've seen dramatic differences in the webdev engine optimization over that period.


With this you mean that it has matured ?

Iwork at a company now that uses servoy . This works on a java stack with tomcat and postgress database. But there have been lots of issues in performance. But this is mainly because of servoy. It uses angular js in an automated havy way. :sneg:

I have told them of webdev but they want to stay with servoy and use note js for things that cannot be done with servoy.

Implementing an API etc. ( By the way it is a huge app)

It is a pitty for I love webdev. But mainly the lead javascript developer says that a 4gl like webdev will not speed up the developement , maybe for starters but after a view months it will slow us down because things cannot be done.:angry:

So I guess I will have to get the hang of servoy.

Any commnets on this , Idea's what I can say to make them change their minds?

What do you think about that comment?

ps

The one positive thing is maybe that in near future , when api is ready, mobile apps. maybe use windev mobile for that. But I ve heard talks about Xamarin. :mad:

regards
Allard

von Allard - am 03.06.2016 21:52
I am working well with wb19 progress v11.5 with ODBC/Native progress driver and
also native sqlServer2012. The speed is super fast regardless of IE, firefox or chrome.
It's also working well in wm21/ios and has a hybrid with webdev/hqSql/progress/sqlServer.

I was thinking of Tomcat with progress 2 yrs ago and decided to drop using it as the setup
is complicated with my hybrid design and the time response is slow.

I have to use ODBC-64 bit with progress ODBC-64 bit for webdev server as the
native progress driver came only 32-bit, weird, as we paid us900up, therefore,
it is not recommended to buy such driver at all.

HTH

Cheers

King

von kingdr - am 04.06.2016 12:50
But mainly the lead javascript developer says that a 4gl like webdev will not speed up the developement , maybe for starters but after a view months it will slow us down because things cannot be done

I have been in this business a long long time, and I have heard that argument more times than I care to remember.

Well, as you know, you can do anything in WinDev/WebDev that you can do in a 3GL and then 3GL is there if you need it (seldom to never) - but my advice is not to try to win an argument with the javascript guy, because he aint about to give up his lead javascript developer role just because his skill are not needed :rolleyes:

WinDev/WebDev will always be a niche product because it cannot be freely used by the hoards. Most developers look at the job ads, not the architecture. That's OK by me - as long as PC Soft keep going.

von DerekM - am 04.06.2016 14:40
Well DerekM,

I am a solid windev developer that has done a view web projects. So that puts me a bit in a blind spot
With windev I can make just about anything. But webdev Iam not so sure. Windev is out of the box fantastic. Webdev might need some work arrounds
( simple thing a splitter is not availeble in webdev as it is in windev.) With javascript or even a simple html tag the javascript guru can make that. I guess this could be done in webdev too but Iam not sure how and thus it works against me.if I bring it up. Same with tables.
Because of a specific requirement thay want inline(Table) editing in the app. ( The users expect that)


And:
If 80% of the worlduses javascript there might be a reason. HA ha . I am by nature a bit stubborn
but he has a point there ;)

And I have seen him making fornt end stuff He is verry fast in making stuff with just html javascript and css.

I think the power of webdev is w language and being able to do database related stuff and busines logic very fast.
Servoy works with a found set. That is a kind of pagetofile() with WX.
But if you need to manipulate data. See if something is there it is a huge task because you have to bring in a foundset and put it into a data set and then run through it wth javascript. Puting an index on the set etc Do all kinds of validation on it , if you don't it will problebly crash etc.

I think an other big plus of w language is:
The fact that you have way less code. This limits the need of sourcecode manager. The SCM of webdev is good enough.
With servoy and the thousands of lines of code they need Git or plastic. To manage all the developer input.

I think less code is less faults (when merging stuff etc) and less code is faster developement.

Webservices

The javascript man is working on the API of the product and. As he does this with note.js there are nice tools to get the api up and runing fast.
Documentation for the end user of the api is all generated. One can test the api with this generated stuff.

Do you know if this is possible with webdev? Because I donnot know I cannot give input in the task at hand. We work in a scrum team and if my input is good chances are the product owner will listen. ( I know for I have had succes in changing busines logic based on my accounting skills )

regards
Allard

Sorry for this long post. Iam a bit frustrated:confused:

von Allard - am 05.06.2016 08:43
Hi Allard

For me, webservices just 'work' in WinDev - and if I understand the question correctly, the interface documentation should be identical.

There certainly are advantages in running with the crowd e.g. lots of Visual Studio examples for almost anything. In my opinion though, there are just too many and varied technologies at the 3GL level. Why have a javascript guy, a Java SDK guy, a C# guy .. or whatever .. when you can use a 4GL/5GL. I can remember not too long ago, when 'cool dudes' were writing websites in raw html with notepad.

As for 'splitters' in WebDev .. well you really need to think in web mode. I have recently successfully converted a large and complex WinDev application to WebDev. Of course, a number of things in the interface had to change, but the end result is that most of the code is reusable, and we now have a web application that surpassed my expectations of what was possible.

But I stick with my advice to not to try to win the argument with the javascript guy, Tell them. but don't lose any sleep over it. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.

Regards,
Derek

von DerekM - am 05.06.2016 10:37
Hi Derek

Yep you are right. thanks for the reply

regards
Allard

von Allard - am 05.06.2016 16:44
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